Too many gurus to choose from!

[Grape]

Zeo, I'm sorry. I did not get my point across.

Of course Mystery has some nice work and so does everyone else.
What I was trying to ask was merely "are you getting rid of yourself and completely faking who you are and what your beliefs and values are or are you still standing for what you personally believe in and such?"

Mystery has good info. It's simply the way he used to teach his information/how people learned his techniques that bug me.

And you may want to look into what Natural Game really is. It's not a simply "be yourself and dont learn anything that PUA teaches."

It's about learning what works and what doesnt and putting that knowledge into your subconcious while socializing. (which is exactly what 'naturals' do)

I personally think it's really creepy when someone is focusing on the science of socializing when socializing instead of simply trying to enjoy life.

And like i said, i used to do it too. I KNOW what it's like. I'm just not a fan.

<33

[zeo]

When you put it that way Grape, I totally agree with you. Many of the adult forums I used to frequent were way too into the techniques and not the people behind them, and that definitely is creepy. If you've read The Game, Strauss even mentions how these guys are really nerdy, in the way that they obsess over the gurus and routines and make it sound like World of Warcraft (which is ironic because he is considered to be one of the gurus that they obssess over). I advocate natural game, in the sense that you put, that you understand how things work, but don't let it run the show or get in the way of enjoying life.

But back to the question posed in this thread, "what gurus should I read to start out", its hard to start out with the natural game guys out there or that style material when most beginners don't the nuances, theories, or even a clue of what to say. Although the old gurus styles aren't perfect, I think beginners can learn a lot from what they have to say that can aid in creating a natural game.

[Grape]

+1. that's solid right there.

[trainspotting]

I think MM and style has fallen out of sync with the community now, because its there personalities imprinted on the method not yours. If you want my advise you gotta work on becoming a man that attracts women. Despite this i do feel you can learn some nice techniques from MM and other outer game based methods.

I'd recommend RSD ( especially Blueprint which is in note form here www.scribd.com/doc/12705616/The-Blueprint-Decoded-Notes ) and Gunwitch( www.gunwitch.com/ )

RSD talk quite alot of bollocks ( there products repeat abit) but most of the blueprint is gold, and Gunwitch tells it how it is.

+

most importantly its all free

[ascendancy]

I recommend looking up Richard Gambler. Some of his material is basic (partially b/c some of the ppl he teaches are starting from scratch) but his videos on the use of Kino are genius. If you want to check them out, i suggest you ask Gay. He sent those videos to us for his PUA-Summer-Camp-Program-Thingie.

And Grape, while you may not like Ross Jeffries' style of PU. I have to admit that most of my growth in inner game came from his teachings. Also, his "mind control" is really a control of emotions and something that i'm going to try harder to learn just because I like the thought of giving my girlfriend pleasure. (As far as getting a girlfriend, i'll leave all the moves to Gambler.)