What i think.

[perceverance]

Guys, i think all of this pua stuff is bullshit. Dont get me wrong, some of this stuff really works but most of it is natural stuff that we should have understood through the course of our lives. Some guys might not know things like not chasing the hot girls because they are used to it, not being affected by the outside world and having a strong inner confidence, etc.. But overall, things like IOI's and IOD's for example, are obvious, if a girl looks at you alot and fixes her hair while looking at you, then shes obviously attracted to you. not all the time, but most of the time. Most of the stuff I read in books is stuff that i know, maybe some guys dont know it but to me it seems like stuff you should know by now. I think we should work more on becoming a natural rather than memorizing shitty terms like IOI, IOD, DHV, routines, etc.. this is just what i think. some of the stuff i read is useful, but i think it might be 35% stuff i learn and 65% stuff that i know when i read a new book. tell me what you guys think.

[Ari Gold]

Hi, we know this.

Not all of us are super cool like you (I am though:P) hence the concept of PUA. You're like me in that you are a natural but you had no idea how to...tap into your "powers" I guess.

You also sound very stuckup, jus' sayin'

[Deleted]

I disagree ajaax, I believe he's truly trying to help people. Shocker I know! God forbid anyone help anyone on this website! In all honesty, I didn't detect a hint of arrogance, I would look inside yourself to see why you felt he was stuck up ajaax.

Perceverance, it's true that this is not a new way of thinking, however, this way of thinking is a very important one which will help you greatly along your path of improvement.

Truth is, most of these pickup e-books is just marketing. Most of it is either regurgitated stuff from the godfathers (Mystery, Ross, David D, Gunwitch, etc) with new cute little names. Most of this "pickup" stuff is basically just social and evolutionary psychology and some biology. That's why I love David DeAngelo so much, he doesn't pussyfoot around and try to wrap it up in a neat little bow, he really dives head first into all the psychological stuff (however he is one of the biggest marketers in pickup so.... idk )

Besides, how do you think you or your dad or your dad's dad got here? It's because they had sex and they didn't need any fancy negs or DHV stories. In reality, this stuff is easy, it's as easy as eating or sleeping because it's one of your main drives in life. Eat, sleep, reproduce: that's what you do best. People need to stop over complicating this shit, it's starting to get annoying. Not everything needs a new "method".

One last thing: if you just go out there and practice you won't need these books of bullshit. It's all trial and error and experience. Sure, the books can give you the extra push you need, but without actually doing it you will learn absolutely nothing. It's like reading a book on karate and expecting to take on Bruce Lee if he were still alive.

Moral of the story: This shit is easy, people need to stop over complicating this stuff, and you need to actually go out and practice.

[perceverance]

Exactly! Its all about practice mate, i forgot to include that in my post but it is! You learn from mistakes and books might give you a little bit of an advantage as you said but overall, the guy who has gotten rejected the most is often the guy with the most girls chasing him, most of the time anyway. Im all about improving(incase you havn't noticed my name haha) and trust me, im nowhere near a pua. i like to be honest and honestly, i have a very long way to go, but im up and ready for it.

I think most guys just need to go for it. make the approach instead of reading about good openers for 2 weeks. sure you might get rejected but you will learn from it, i guarantee it. I think there is only one type of game and that is natural game. with a little aid from written stuff if you really need it.

[RMO]

Alright I actually agree, I was at first pissed 'bout the whole PUA idea being *bullshit* but I went and read it.

The truth is that someone from a forum like this, who understands the natural progression, the renaissance man, needs to write an ebook or other course based in part on their own experiences and the best way to become a whole person who doesn't believe in the societal stereotypes about women, and will be able to not give a fuck, to be a zen master, not a PUA master.

[perceverance]

yup, some stuff actually helps understand the whole concept but in general, i have learned to have more confidence and lower approach anxiety. The things that the mpua's teach us are things that most guys know naturally. this doesn't mean im not gonna read more books but instead of memorizing all the roll off's, neg's, ioi, iods, and what not, im gonna try and understand the general concept.

[Nick]

This thread made me realize that I just need the courage and motivation to get out there and at least try. Knowing a shit ton of stuff won't help. Just some basic stuff is all I need.

[perceverance]

im glad i could help callme, just go for it bro. all that knowledge wont do anything for you if you dont put it to practice and yes, you only need the basic stuff, not all of those fancy terms they give you or those confusing routines. take what you want from what you learn, you dont need it all :]

[Ari Gold]

well i thought this was an opinion thread so i threw out my opinion:P haha well sorry doods, I misinterpreted.

[Calli]

Jul 1, 2010 19:54:33 GMT -5 perceverance said:

Guys, i think all of this pua stuff is bullshit.

I can't say I agree with you here. I do agree that it is all about practice rather than reading eBooks, and that a lot of the aspects of PUA are common sense. But I don't see how this makes PUA bullshit.

Personally, PUA has really opened my eyes to a lot of things I was doing wrong, and taught me so much about the interaction between men and women. It was mostly common sense stuff, but things that I hadn't really considered before. The way I see it, I have received knowledge that would take me years to learn in a few months.

Yes, it does have a downside, and that is the whole creepiness of the culture and some of the terminology ('lair' for example), and also the way that people can be sucked into spending hours reading and no time practicing, and the false sense of superiority over the 'AFC's they may feel. A lot of people criticize terms like IOI and DHV, but I think they are missing the point, the reason this terminology exists is to make it easier to write field reports and articles without repeating 'Indication of Interest' over and over. You should know that PUA is not all about memorizing acronyms, that is a criticism I would expect from someone outside the community.

Not trying to put you down here, just stating my opinion.

[perceverance]

I see what you mean Calli, like i said, it helps some guys out but some guys already have good bases and know the basics. everybody is diffrent. some pua information really helps some guys out and most of the time has a positive effect on the community. i'd much rather see the guys who have good bases and know the basics out there trying to pick up women rather than trying to stuff advanced knowledge into their brains.

[Sye~]

Jul 4, 2010 3:02:30 GMT -5 perceverance said:

I see what you mean Calli, like i said, it helps some guys out but some guys already have good bases and know the basics. everybody is diffrent. some pua information really helps some guys out and most of the time has a positive effect on the community. i'd much rather see the guys who have good bases and know the basics out there trying to pick up women rather than trying to stuff advanced knowledge into their brains.

Well thats the point of reading PUA material.
Some people never grew up with the social skills to get woman. Most men grew up as AFC's. Now we can get one or two girls in our lifetime.. but we deserve more then that. We deserve the chance to choose who we want to mate with.
I learn this stuff to better my life, learn a couple of interesting things I can share with other people, and for a major confidence boost.
Everyone around me has noticed my transformation.. I use PUA books to fake it till I make it. There are many men out there too old to start from the bottom and work their way up.
This material allows them to skip to the top and try to hang there till it becomes you.

I for one love PUA material. Everything I've learnt has made me a better man. My life is much happier. I don't spend all day on the computer playing video games because those are the only people who would accept me.

I and probably many many men out there have soaked in a lot of little helpful tips that made them a better AFC. Practicing makes you into a PUA, natural, etc. But just that little boost will allow you to be more accepted into society.
Im greatfull. and its true that everyone needs to step out there comfort zone and talk to woman to actually get anywhere.
But its not like the information you do learn goes through one ear and out the other.

[Deleted]

C'mon guys really?

PUA is almost completely marketing/bullshit.

Why oh why are there soo many completely opposite sides of pickup... that still work? Mystery says "don't show you're interested you'll lose value" and yet Gunwitch says "show nothing but sexual interest". Who's right here? I'll make it easy on you: both are right.

Honestly, I could walk around in a fucking clown suit and still pickup girls because of my frame of mind. That's all this pickup bullshit boils down to: beliefs, frames of mind, and confidence.

All these routines and words do is give you confidence that what you say is going to work. "The worlds greatest pickup artist uses this routine, it has to work!" and it's that confidence which allows it to work. It's not the words, it's how you say it and if you say it with confidence anything is going to work.

And on the whole social skills thing, if you're learning basic social skills from pickup books may God have mercy on your soul. You're going to turn out to be one creepy motherfucker. How about actually going out there and building your own social skills like everyone else had to?

All in all, pickup books just over complicate one of your most basic needs and desires. It's really A LOT easier than all of this.

EDIT: Honestly, the best part of pickup is NLP and learning how to reframe yourself and your views on things. I never use it in pickup, but it is an invaluable tool to help yourself grow into the confident you that you've never been.

[Eastcoast]

Jul 4, 2010 14:10:12 GMT -5 @aaron4prez said:

And on the whole social skills thing, if you're learning basic social skills from pickup books may God have mercy on your soul. You're going to turn out to be one creepy motherfucker. How about actually going out there and building your own social skills like everyone else had to?

Learning the social skills doesnt make you a creepy motherfucker at all man. Have you noticed how many afc's are out there? Alot, if not most guys around are not well rounded guys. Most people I talk to don't make solid eye contact. This would be a really basic social skill which most people don't have. Look at the average persons body language, its usually not confident and sometimes straight up awkward. I know im sterotyping people but clearly with the way everything in society is happening people aren't learning the basic social skills.

So if your learning the basic social skills like i assume most guys on here did, does that automatically mean that you are gonna turn out creepy? I really dont think so.

Learning these have made all of our lives better. If guys use it wrong and it happens they come out creepy that sucks. But I didn't learn basic social skills through the world so pua gave me them. Thats doesent make me a creepy motherfucker.

[Deleted]

I can tell I hit a raw nerve.

First of all, most of the stuff you list is confidence based. You start to naturally do this as you become more confident, not as your social skills improve.

And in my honest opinion, pickup should be something to IMPROVE confidence and social skills, not to FINALLY GET.

If you have zero social skills coming into pickup chances are you'll have zero going out. That's just my personal opinion. Pickup is for people who have a sense of who they are and how they interact with people and the world, otherwise it just corrupts them.

But I suppose you can do whatever you want, I'm not your mother.