Post by curlyhairedbastard on Feb 4, 2009 14:12:34 GMT -5
I was going through one of my favorite sites and i found this article.
all credit due to psyneh
If you want to put a car in a garage, there's two ways to do it:
1. Tear the garage down and rebuild it over the car.
2. Drive the car into the garage.
A lot of the current model of ASF has its place, but it's used at the wrong times: Making it take much longer for a guy to find what he wants. Playing with a flawed model is better than playing with nothing at all, but let's step it up a bit, shall we?
A huge part of the current dogma is to have a higher value than hers. No arguments there.
But, let's say you assess yourself at a value of "7" and so do other people. And she's an "8.5" on the objective rating scale.
Houston, we have a problem. Or, rather, a potential problem.
Now, there's a few ways to deal with a situation like this:
1. Long term: Become legitimately higher value. Okay, great. Should be one of your goals. Always improve your life. We've talked about this before. But it's not going to do anything TONIGHT, is it?
2. Lowering her value to increase yours: Negs, dismissals. Better than nothing. Really, I mean that.
Okay, these two above are the main ASF ideas for dealing with it. #1 is inner game, which some highly advocate and I agree with. It also includes things like the gym and nutrition, which guys like ijjji advocate and for good reason.
#2 is what a lot of people see as the correct "outer game" play. Regardless, solutions 1 and 2 both rely on another factor: Always increasing your value. I've never seen anyone dissent from intelligently and discretionately using Cialdini's concept of social proof. Likewise, being sociable and cool is always good.
So, what's the problem? #2 is like trying to drive in a nail with a screwdriver. It works, but it takes longer and is more likely to break down somewhere along the line.
THE REAL DEAL:
Solution 3: Increase BOTH of your value simultaneously.
Okay, back to our first illustration. Guy is a "7", girl is an "8.5". The guy could use negs, social proof, takeaways, and such to decrease her value situationally to "7.5" and increase his value to an "8". Then, some logistics, some more gaming, some of this and that and ideally he beds her. But he's bedding a woman whose SOCIAL STATUS HAS BEEN DAMAGED!!!!!!!
He's bedding a 7.5. Now, if he's a really cool guy otherwise, but might not appear so on a first glance, maybe she'll keep perceiving him at a high level when she snaps out of the need for validation trance. But if it's all just been a front, guess what? She's going to start seeing herself as better than you soon enough, and it's time for all hell to break loose. This is a large cause of why some night game that's successful at "putting numbers on the scoreboard" is terrible at making loyal, solid, dependable girls. And many of these same guys rant about how worthless women are! When they're damaging the goods before they take it!
Go figure!
SOMETHING MUCH BETTER:
Instead, realize that you have the power to make any girl better than what she is, simply by virtue of being with you, being connected to you, being in your presence or even able to communicate some with you. She can feel more sexy, more intelligent, solve problems more easily, be more dedicated, be more rational, and so on.
Does that sound like a grand claim? It's not. A good leader can bring out all those things in a person, and more.
So, instead of you cutting that cute lil' 8.5 down to a 7.5, you make her into a 9.5!
Hold the phone, Dimitri! You can't be serious! I'm just a "7", I can't handle the 8.5, let alone a 9.5!
Well, first, my friend, start seeing yourself in a better light. But that said, check out the flaw in your objection:
You make her into a 9.5. Who is that dependant on? YOU! She feels stronger, smarter, more confident, more socially savvy, more beautiful, and more powerful around you. Without you, she can't have that. What does that do for your value?
10/10, gentlemen. When you deliver a compliment well (that's where the game comes in), you increase your value and hers... and yours MORE.
There's an art to this, of course. It's possible to give a compliment that's supplicative. That raises her value a tiny bit, and lowers yours a lot. Same with perceived supplication. But imagine, if you will, that a Tom Cruise-esque guy walks up to a girl, looks deeply into her eyes, and tells her that she carries herself so gracefully that he had to come speak with her. Guess what? She's positively glowing, and his value has only gotten higher.
And if you're picking up everyone around you, you're getting social proofed too. Higher social status. More people want to be around you. It's cyclical.
DIMITRI, GIVE ME THE TECH ALREADY!
Sure. When saying or doing anything in the game, be PROCESS ORIENTED, NOT RESULTS ORIENTED. That means, do what you feel, and shrug at what happens. When the night is over, it's good to analytically look at what happened, and adjust. Maybe even take a couple minutes while you're in the men's room to think over how things have been going. But instead of taking a technical aspect, it's important to bring what you feel, and what you want. That means go with what you want to go with, not what you've been told to go with. If any given compliment/remark/story/whatever gets negative results, you shrug at the moment, because you did the process as best as you could. You improve the process later, as you can, but in the moment, you live it and love it. And that shrug if someone disapproves is usually enough to make it glaze over and no matter, anyway.
Deliver everything from a position of power and authority. When you state something that you think, your position isn't going to change based on what they think or say. So you give a girl a compliment on her rhetro-yellow skirt. She says she hates it but has nothing else to wear. You shrug, or maybe say, "Meh, I still like it" and keep going. You don't take back what you've said, because it's true. Likewise, if she starts glowing, you don't go on and on about it: You've said what you have to say, now keep moving. The authority part means you're not tentative. If you give her a compliment, you might leave a normal social pause in there to see if she thanks you or says something in particular, but after that half-second or so, you just do/say what you want to. You don't stand and wait for her to decide what she wants to do with you.
Judging: Everyone judges all the time, whether they admit it or not. Even a person who prides themself on being non-judgmental still makes spot assessments of everything they see. Well, I say take it to the forefront. Be conscious of the fact that you're always judging, and do so. It's what the concept of screening is all about: And I don't mean pretending to screen. See if she's what you actually want. Practice is great and all, but at some point, you gotta start getting what you want and deserve.
So far, we've covered the basic mindsets and attitudes of Mutual Value Escalation. You come from a position of power and authority, objectively realize and consciously judge her actions to see if you like her and what she's doing, and then you stay process oriented: You don't let what others think/do affect you if you're giving it your best.
DISRESPECT:
There's a lot of rude people in the world. If I had to guess, I'd say there's probably an equal number of rude men and rude women, but in a lot of western countries, you see blatant disrespect by women to a lot of men.
So, you're out in the club, you see a girl wearing a ruby-colored, shimmering red dress. Long, soft blond hair and a pearl necklace framing her perfect neck. You go to talk to her, and she's rude!
What has she done? Well, if she wants you (and she will soon if not already, my friends, rest assured) she's played shitty game. But you can't blame her, Cosmo and The Rules are really the blind leading the blind.
She doesn't know any better. Someone would do well to point her to my MVETheory, but in the meantime, you'd better deal with this.
Take no disrespect! When a girl disrespects you, it's her trying to raise her value a bit by slamming yours. Instead, you assume your value is still where it's at, and that hers is SEVERELY decreased by her disrespect.
Then treat her appropriately. Like, if you can, imagine the 9 that just said some rude shit to transform into a 4, and it's a rabidly ugly drunk girl that's talking shit. In this case, you'd probably what?
Turn your back to her? Tell her that she's rude? Laugh and make fun of her? Roll your eyes and look at her like a little child?
Ignore her entirely?
If a woman is willing, I'll take her and me to new heights together. We'll thrive together in a partnership, and if she measures up, a relationship. Sometimes we'll make love, sometimes we'll have sex, sometimes we'll get down and dirty and fuck real nasty. We'll have great conversations, do fun things, and both learn more about ourselves. We'll see sunsets and sunrises and I'll show her things she's never seen before, and I'll learn everything I can from her.
But not if she wants to be a snotty little bitch. There's, quite literally, a line of girls that are begging for my attention, my affection, my love. So if one girl can't realize what I'm worth, she'd better get in line ASAP.
So take it as a severe knock on her value. Many people, when faced with someone being hard to get or disrespectful, want to prove to that person that they like them. Wrong response.
So, after she's disrespectful to you, you either "neg" her, as appropriate, or maybe dismiss her entirely in favor of better girls. If she was not being entirely attentive, then it might be time to tease her a little. If she was downright fucking rude, then it might be time to tell her straightup, "Hey, I was just being social, having a conversation, and that was rude. But... have a nice evening."
WAIT, DIMITRI, WHY NOT JUST NEG RIGHT OFF THE BAT?
Because, quite frankly, I don't need to. Have you ever seen an old, black and white movie, with a man playing a manly actor telling a woman that she's so beautiful and they'd be perfect for each other. Lots of times, the girl melts for him on the spot. Sometimes, she doesn't. But if she fires something at him sarcastically, he always shoots right back with something clever about how she's blowing her chances.
AND, it would presuppose that I need to neg, which I don't. This all goes back to having/being a high value person. I come in assuming I'm already supremely high value, but that's another topic for another time.
**IN CLOSING**
Don't try to cut women down so you're better than them. Instead, lead them and make people around you better people. You can do this by encouraging them, complimenting them when they do well, and disciplining them when they fail.
You assume a high value, and you create even more by this attitude. Really, everyone you meet will be picked up a bit, and become a better person if they work with you. If they work against you, they go from having you in their corner to you judging them harshly: And they see that you're solid in heart and mind, so they just made a huge mistake. The vast, vast majority of the time, this is enough to correct the behavior and not have it around you. It doesn't mean that you'll get any one, individual woman, but it does mean that you'll constantly have attractive women that are loyal to you and good people around you. It'll also make you have more friends and more loyal friends, as well as more contacts, acquaintances, and so on.
Without being too sappy, trying to leave everyone you find a little better off makes you a LOT better off, and people will follow your lead. If someone is disrespectful, you don't tolerate it: You see if they'll fix their behavior, and it's sayanora if they can't.
Feel free to add more thoughts and technique, my friends. This avenue of game has been around forever, and it's the most successful model of leadership and playing the game. Just because it hasn't been talked about in this way before en masse shouldn't stop you from logically thinking it out and realizing that you know lots of people who do this and are successful with it. Chip in some thoughts, and let the discussion grow.
all credit due to psyneh
If you want to put a car in a garage, there's two ways to do it:
1. Tear the garage down and rebuild it over the car.
2. Drive the car into the garage.
A lot of the current model of ASF has its place, but it's used at the wrong times: Making it take much longer for a guy to find what he wants. Playing with a flawed model is better than playing with nothing at all, but let's step it up a bit, shall we?
A huge part of the current dogma is to have a higher value than hers. No arguments there.
But, let's say you assess yourself at a value of "7" and so do other people. And she's an "8.5" on the objective rating scale.
Houston, we have a problem. Or, rather, a potential problem.
Now, there's a few ways to deal with a situation like this:
1. Long term: Become legitimately higher value. Okay, great. Should be one of your goals. Always improve your life. We've talked about this before. But it's not going to do anything TONIGHT, is it?
2. Lowering her value to increase yours: Negs, dismissals. Better than nothing. Really, I mean that.
Okay, these two above are the main ASF ideas for dealing with it. #1 is inner game, which some highly advocate and I agree with. It also includes things like the gym and nutrition, which guys like ijjji advocate and for good reason.
#2 is what a lot of people see as the correct "outer game" play. Regardless, solutions 1 and 2 both rely on another factor: Always increasing your value. I've never seen anyone dissent from intelligently and discretionately using Cialdini's concept of social proof. Likewise, being sociable and cool is always good.
So, what's the problem? #2 is like trying to drive in a nail with a screwdriver. It works, but it takes longer and is more likely to break down somewhere along the line.
THE REAL DEAL:
Solution 3: Increase BOTH of your value simultaneously.
Okay, back to our first illustration. Guy is a "7", girl is an "8.5". The guy could use negs, social proof, takeaways, and such to decrease her value situationally to "7.5" and increase his value to an "8". Then, some logistics, some more gaming, some of this and that and ideally he beds her. But he's bedding a woman whose SOCIAL STATUS HAS BEEN DAMAGED!!!!!!!
He's bedding a 7.5. Now, if he's a really cool guy otherwise, but might not appear so on a first glance, maybe she'll keep perceiving him at a high level when she snaps out of the need for validation trance. But if it's all just been a front, guess what? She's going to start seeing herself as better than you soon enough, and it's time for all hell to break loose. This is a large cause of why some night game that's successful at "putting numbers on the scoreboard" is terrible at making loyal, solid, dependable girls. And many of these same guys rant about how worthless women are! When they're damaging the goods before they take it!
Go figure!
SOMETHING MUCH BETTER:
Instead, realize that you have the power to make any girl better than what she is, simply by virtue of being with you, being connected to you, being in your presence or even able to communicate some with you. She can feel more sexy, more intelligent, solve problems more easily, be more dedicated, be more rational, and so on.
Does that sound like a grand claim? It's not. A good leader can bring out all those things in a person, and more.
So, instead of you cutting that cute lil' 8.5 down to a 7.5, you make her into a 9.5!
Hold the phone, Dimitri! You can't be serious! I'm just a "7", I can't handle the 8.5, let alone a 9.5!
Well, first, my friend, start seeing yourself in a better light. But that said, check out the flaw in your objection:
You make her into a 9.5. Who is that dependant on? YOU! She feels stronger, smarter, more confident, more socially savvy, more beautiful, and more powerful around you. Without you, she can't have that. What does that do for your value?
10/10, gentlemen. When you deliver a compliment well (that's where the game comes in), you increase your value and hers... and yours MORE.
There's an art to this, of course. It's possible to give a compliment that's supplicative. That raises her value a tiny bit, and lowers yours a lot. Same with perceived supplication. But imagine, if you will, that a Tom Cruise-esque guy walks up to a girl, looks deeply into her eyes, and tells her that she carries herself so gracefully that he had to come speak with her. Guess what? She's positively glowing, and his value has only gotten higher.
And if you're picking up everyone around you, you're getting social proofed too. Higher social status. More people want to be around you. It's cyclical.
DIMITRI, GIVE ME THE TECH ALREADY!
Sure. When saying or doing anything in the game, be PROCESS ORIENTED, NOT RESULTS ORIENTED. That means, do what you feel, and shrug at what happens. When the night is over, it's good to analytically look at what happened, and adjust. Maybe even take a couple minutes while you're in the men's room to think over how things have been going. But instead of taking a technical aspect, it's important to bring what you feel, and what you want. That means go with what you want to go with, not what you've been told to go with. If any given compliment/remark/story/whatever gets negative results, you shrug at the moment, because you did the process as best as you could. You improve the process later, as you can, but in the moment, you live it and love it. And that shrug if someone disapproves is usually enough to make it glaze over and no matter, anyway.
Deliver everything from a position of power and authority. When you state something that you think, your position isn't going to change based on what they think or say. So you give a girl a compliment on her rhetro-yellow skirt. She says she hates it but has nothing else to wear. You shrug, or maybe say, "Meh, I still like it" and keep going. You don't take back what you've said, because it's true. Likewise, if she starts glowing, you don't go on and on about it: You've said what you have to say, now keep moving. The authority part means you're not tentative. If you give her a compliment, you might leave a normal social pause in there to see if she thanks you or says something in particular, but after that half-second or so, you just do/say what you want to. You don't stand and wait for her to decide what she wants to do with you.
Judging: Everyone judges all the time, whether they admit it or not. Even a person who prides themself on being non-judgmental still makes spot assessments of everything they see. Well, I say take it to the forefront. Be conscious of the fact that you're always judging, and do so. It's what the concept of screening is all about: And I don't mean pretending to screen. See if she's what you actually want. Practice is great and all, but at some point, you gotta start getting what you want and deserve.
So far, we've covered the basic mindsets and attitudes of Mutual Value Escalation. You come from a position of power and authority, objectively realize and consciously judge her actions to see if you like her and what she's doing, and then you stay process oriented: You don't let what others think/do affect you if you're giving it your best.
DISRESPECT:
There's a lot of rude people in the world. If I had to guess, I'd say there's probably an equal number of rude men and rude women, but in a lot of western countries, you see blatant disrespect by women to a lot of men.
So, you're out in the club, you see a girl wearing a ruby-colored, shimmering red dress. Long, soft blond hair and a pearl necklace framing her perfect neck. You go to talk to her, and she's rude!
What has she done? Well, if she wants you (and she will soon if not already, my friends, rest assured) she's played shitty game. But you can't blame her, Cosmo and The Rules are really the blind leading the blind.
She doesn't know any better. Someone would do well to point her to my MVETheory, but in the meantime, you'd better deal with this.
Take no disrespect! When a girl disrespects you, it's her trying to raise her value a bit by slamming yours. Instead, you assume your value is still where it's at, and that hers is SEVERELY decreased by her disrespect.
Then treat her appropriately. Like, if you can, imagine the 9 that just said some rude shit to transform into a 4, and it's a rabidly ugly drunk girl that's talking shit. In this case, you'd probably what?
Turn your back to her? Tell her that she's rude? Laugh and make fun of her? Roll your eyes and look at her like a little child?
Ignore her entirely?
If a woman is willing, I'll take her and me to new heights together. We'll thrive together in a partnership, and if she measures up, a relationship. Sometimes we'll make love, sometimes we'll have sex, sometimes we'll get down and dirty and fuck real nasty. We'll have great conversations, do fun things, and both learn more about ourselves. We'll see sunsets and sunrises and I'll show her things she's never seen before, and I'll learn everything I can from her.
But not if she wants to be a snotty little bitch. There's, quite literally, a line of girls that are begging for my attention, my affection, my love. So if one girl can't realize what I'm worth, she'd better get in line ASAP.
So take it as a severe knock on her value. Many people, when faced with someone being hard to get or disrespectful, want to prove to that person that they like them. Wrong response.
So, after she's disrespectful to you, you either "neg" her, as appropriate, or maybe dismiss her entirely in favor of better girls. If she was not being entirely attentive, then it might be time to tease her a little. If she was downright fucking rude, then it might be time to tell her straightup, "Hey, I was just being social, having a conversation, and that was rude. But... have a nice evening."
WAIT, DIMITRI, WHY NOT JUST NEG RIGHT OFF THE BAT?
Because, quite frankly, I don't need to. Have you ever seen an old, black and white movie, with a man playing a manly actor telling a woman that she's so beautiful and they'd be perfect for each other. Lots of times, the girl melts for him on the spot. Sometimes, she doesn't. But if she fires something at him sarcastically, he always shoots right back with something clever about how she's blowing her chances.
AND, it would presuppose that I need to neg, which I don't. This all goes back to having/being a high value person. I come in assuming I'm already supremely high value, but that's another topic for another time.
**IN CLOSING**
Don't try to cut women down so you're better than them. Instead, lead them and make people around you better people. You can do this by encouraging them, complimenting them when they do well, and disciplining them when they fail.
You assume a high value, and you create even more by this attitude. Really, everyone you meet will be picked up a bit, and become a better person if they work with you. If they work against you, they go from having you in their corner to you judging them harshly: And they see that you're solid in heart and mind, so they just made a huge mistake. The vast, vast majority of the time, this is enough to correct the behavior and not have it around you. It doesn't mean that you'll get any one, individual woman, but it does mean that you'll constantly have attractive women that are loyal to you and good people around you. It'll also make you have more friends and more loyal friends, as well as more contacts, acquaintances, and so on.
Without being too sappy, trying to leave everyone you find a little better off makes you a LOT better off, and people will follow your lead. If someone is disrespectful, you don't tolerate it: You see if they'll fix their behavior, and it's sayanora if they can't.
Feel free to add more thoughts and technique, my friends. This avenue of game has been around forever, and it's the most successful model of leadership and playing the game. Just because it hasn't been talked about in this way before en masse shouldn't stop you from logically thinking it out and realizing that you know lots of people who do this and are successful with it. Chip in some thoughts, and let the discussion grow.
