what's the community coming down to?

[Grape]

I feel like the community is good for the most part. I mean it DID change my life afterall.

But I feel like there are so many brick walls I ran into before achieving my success.

Many of the "aspiring PUAs" are worried about shit tests and bitch shields and ask whether or not they did good and people actually respond positively.

I believe that is a bad thing to do. I feel like there is a "path" to success with PUA, but there are several several misleading branches.

Many PUAs are focusing on the wrong things, and then wonder what they are doing wrong.

Example: "I needed to pass this shit test and I failed. I will try doing THIS OTHER THING to pass it next time. I am improving myself, yay!"

Do anyone of these guys honestly think it's shit tests that successful men are focusing on? Do they think any of the Gurus or the Naturals give a shit about shit tests?

The term "shit test" is something PUAs decided to make up to rationalize their failures with women. Protects the PUA ego when in truth it's a simple confusion due to their own awkward personalities.

The community deviates from this 'path of success' with concepts like that of shit tests.

We should be focusing on changing and developing new personalities, not providing step by step "How To's".

Think of it this way:
Kid 1 learns the multiplication table via pure memorization. He doesn't realize the similarity between 5x6=30 and 6x5=30. No foundation to support his knowledge.
Just memorzies numbers. Doesn't understand 5x6 actually means adding 5 to itself 6 times in a row. So after learning from 1x1 to 12x12, how will he ever figure out what 528x203 is??

Kid 2 learns through logic. He knows that 5x6=6x5. He has a FOUNDATION of his knowledge. He can further expand his knowledge without the use of 'pure memory'. He can find out what 528x203 even though he has never done it before.


So Kid 2's education is what the PUA community SHOULD be implementing.
But soo much of Kid 1's education is around that it's making it hard to lay down a foundation, or a PERSONALITY.

I just hope this sticks to everyone's minds. I just hope people have these thoughts in their heads while being active in this community.

<33 Grape

[Volt]

I totally agree with almost everything you said, and love your analogy, but I disagree with one small point. People come to the community looking for quick success at a party or with "this one girl" and who are we not to help them with that? I think step-by-step methods are a good way to prevent people from digging themselves into deeper holes while they learn how to do things the right way and why. After all, kid 1 probably became competent in multiplying 1x1-12x12 faster than kid 2.

[nutrick]

i love you, you fucking korean. i've noticed this happening in here as well. they fail to miss the underlying meaning behind all of this. and who can blame them? we're still kids, we're still trying to find the big picture to everything (and some are choosing to ignore it) so it's a natural part of development, and unfortunately it unavoidable. you can't exactly teach them to look at the big picture, you can only provide the guide posts. like the saying goes "you can lead them to the watering hole, but you can't make them drink" well done grape, this post was needed for a while. i tried to write one, but i was in a PO mood at the time, so it was never really completed

[Alek]

I dont get what your trying to say? Shit tests are important because obviously its a social scenerio in which you will face when talking to chicks. And being in the know, is very useful. And then knowing what to do, is even better.

If your trying to make the point where people concentrate all their time into just one small aspect in pick up, or in life then sure. But dont get that confused with sticking points, you gotta work on them. And then your improving the broad picture, and all around coolness.

[Grape]

Sept 6, 2009 12:02:08 GMT -5 Volt said:

I totally agree with almost everything you said, and love your analogy, but I disagree with one small point. People come to the community looking for quick success at a party or with "this one girl" and who are we not to help them with that? I think step-by-step methods are a good way to prevent people from digging themselves into deeper holes while they learn how to do things the right way and why. After all, kid 1 probably became competent in multiplying 1x1-12x12 faster than kid 2.

exactly. it seems so much easier to go with the kid 1 method. it's faster. and at some point, we must all convert to kid 2.

Sept 6, 2009 12:38:23 GMT -5 nutrick said:

i love you, you fucking korean. i've noticed this happening in here as well. they fail to miss the underlying meaning behind all of this. and who can blame them? we're still kids, we're still trying to find the big picture to everything (and some are choosing to ignore it) so it's a natural part of development, and unfortunately it unavoidable. you can't exactly teach them to look at the big picture, you can only provide the guide posts. like the saying goes "you can lead them to the watering hole, but you can't make them drink" well done grape, this post was needed for a while. i tried to write one, but i was in a PO mood at the time, so it was never really completed

I love you bro.

Sept 6, 2009 17:23:21 GMT -5 Alek said:

I dont get what your trying to say? Shit tests are important because obviously its a social scenerio in which you will face when talking to chicks. And being in the know, is very useful. And then knowing what to do, is even better.

If your trying to make the point where people concentrate all their time into just one small aspect in pick up, or in life then sure. But dont get that confused with sticking points, you gotta work on them. And then your improving the broad picture, and all around coolness.

Shit tests are not real. I'll be doing a post on this soon.
I'm saying the community has a lot of bullshit that makes sense if explained. And this makes people listen to this bs, and then wonder why nothing is working.

There are soo many business Gurus now and they dont really care about the reality, but what they're teaching sells.

Guys think all they want is sex. Gurus give them only this.
But then we realize it's so much more than just sex. It's our happiness, our fulfillment, our lifestyle, our social lives. All of these can bring a natural success with women.

This is what I want. I want a community that will help men not have to filter the truths from the BS. And help them be themselves while being happy.

I'ma go write this thing already.

[SenorBubbz]

Sorry bro, but I stopped reading after something about awkward personalities.

I do 100% agree with the idea behind the post though. Shit tests aren't meant to through you off. They are actually "congruence tests" which were created by girls to see if you're the big shit you're pretending to be. If you're actually cool then you shouldn't have a problem. Stop focusing on passing shit tests and what to say next and focus more on having fun and being comfortable with this wonderful creature we call "hoes" and "bitches" =D

[RedDog]

Well, I'll give my perspective.

The game is dead. It has been for a while.

Coming in to the game, back in the "afc days", I wasnt an anti social hermit who never talked to a girl before. I did have some game. The game basically tells you "Hey, you arent social at all, you arent *insert guru*, you've never been good with girls, but buy my product and you will be." The seduction community is too big for its britches.

You can have a million lines but you can only have 1 you. Now the PUA concept of Inner Game does have a purpose, but at first you are overwhelmed and are like "zomg I haz no confidence, Im a loser bla bla bla".

There's an imaginary barrier that is set for the new "rafcs" that we all felt was there. The leap from no success to massive success. The leap from no confidence to super mega confidence. I was always wondering how to pass it. To many guys coming in think that reading *guru's book here* automatically gets them girls. It certainly puts them in good state, but its just a band-aid to the situation. Until you realize that 1: High School social stuff really isn;t that big of a deal(college as well) 2: What other people think of you doesnt matter 3: Girls are more sexual then guys, and also want sex(with the right guy), then you arent going anywhere with these methods.

IMO, A general strategy is good for seducing girls. IE, I always try to run more kino/jealousy oriented game, Thats fine. Ask a natural their general strategy and most will have one(Even if it is just "I'm just being myself"). But seriously guys, Mystery Method, Lovesystems, RSD, Ross Jeffries, its all garbage. NONE OF YOU NEED IT. It's distracting and borderline social robotism.

Natural game is the only way to go. And as Men, we can seduce girls. Its easy squeezy lemon peezy.

[darkpwns]

What are these shit tests? I don't see them, I don't hear them...I don't notice anything. Hell I don't even notice when people are trying to "amog" me.

When it comes to girlfriends I think that its all live and learn and that you can't be TAUGHT how to find happiness in a relationship or how to make it work...if it doesn't work...it just won't.

A step by step gameplan is A OK when you're just starting out and want to go out TONIGHT, but in the long run you won't have fun as long as you're not being yourself (so I agree with you there Grape)

The dating gurus that actually HELP you (*cough* Brad P *cough*) don't spew nonsense about shit tests and the almighty "Boyfriend destroyers" (which don't really exist, either a girl is a slide or she's not, what you say is not going to change how she feels about staying faithful) and instead they focus on trying to help you find out the amazing points of your personality and the negative points of your personality and then fixing it so that almost everything is attractive and you're confident that you're just an amazing person, not a shallow veil that says awesome even though under it you're just full of shit. I think this is where the community should be going. Focusing on you, instead of the actual gaming.

[Alek]

I agree mr darkpwns

[Grape]

Yes yes yes.

Many teaching of PUA overcomplicate the simplest things.
For example, the kino esc. ladder.

Who cares about what has to be done before anything else. It's simple: Just make sure you're making physical contact to let the girl get comfortable with you guys touching more intimately.

Ya get?

[Alek]

Has to be more complicated, so people get their money's worth...in their eyes. Its all about trade skills yo

[RedDog]

I have to go write an article on this now. Should be epic.

[nutrick]

pick up is a fucking marketing tactic. it's all about playing on your fucking insecurities. jeezus how the fuck could i not see this! as soon as that movie comes out, and the more mainstream pick up becomes, the more it dies inside. just like hip hop.

post about this comin soon.

[Grape]

we need to seriously do something about this.

[SenorBubbz]

Strike? =D


Not much we can do, except buy Brad P's 30/30 Club, which is the only thing ANYONE needs