MISSION : GETTING RIPPED

[jmac]

Don't try and get the body presented in the first picture, he has a very awkward physique. A great ripped/cut to try and obtain is like Cam Gigandet in Never Back Down because clearly he has muscle but his low body fat percentage makes him look jacked. Also, there's plenty of threads with advice and shit so look at some of those instead because people are just going to post the same advice you'll see on those threads. And it will save time.

[joe]

Jul 18, 2011 1:44:01 GMT -5 DanZy said:

Jul 17, 2011 14:08:40 GMT -5 joe said:

I like everything else you said, but that is wrong; natural fructose from fruit is perfectly okay. Fruit was a key part of our primal ancestor's diet which is when we were said to be in our strongest, healthiest form. In sugar and high fructose corn syrup, fructose is not good, since both of those substances are refined and contain 50% glucose and 50% fructose and the glucose will be absorbed right into your blood stream since it doesn't have to be processed. Fructose on the other hand needs to go through your digestive track and to your liver first before it can be used, thus not spiking your insulin levels. Fruit are rich in fiber and other nutrients and don't spike your insulin levels, so i would include them if i were you. Almost anything natural is fine; if you can't imagine how it's made, don't eat it.

Mate that's plain incorrect. Fruit will spike your insulin levels and that's scientifically proven. Why did our ancestors consume fruit? Because it was a quick and easy energy source that required no hunting, which they could always come back to the following season.

But natural is best. Lean meat and quality veg are what you need

Then show me the scientific proof. I think this is fair enough scientific proof to prove you wrong. nutritiondata.self.com/topics/glycemic-index
Notice how low most fruits are on the glycemic index chart compared to other foods

[DanZy]

That's only measuring glucose breakdown dude and thus is invalid as fructose is broken down differently to glucose.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080724064824.htm
www.ajcn.org/content/76/5/911.long
www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/
There's your proof

[joe]

Jul 18, 2011 23:37:37 GMT -5 DanZy said:

That's only measuring glucose breakdown dude and thus is invalid as fructose is broken down differently to glucose.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080724064824.htm
www.ajcn.org/content/76/5/911.long
www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/
There's your proof

hahaha did you even bother to read the proof you gave me? That's all talking about ADDED fructose as in HFCS which i said to avoid; i'm saying that the fructose found in fruits is fine. Here's some quotes from your articles:

Article 1: "Dr. Parks said that people trying to lose weight shouldn't eliminate fruit from their diets but that limiting processed foods containing the sugar may help.
"There are lots of people out there who want to demonize fructose as the cause of the obesity epidemic," she said. "I think it may be a contributor, but it's not the only problem. Americans are eating too many calories for their activity level. We're overeating fat, we're overeating protein; and we're overeating all sugars.""

Article 2: "Second, the concerns raised about the addition of fructose to the diet as sucrose or HFCS should not be extended to naturally occurring fructose from fruit and vegetables. The consumption of fruit and vegetables should continue to be encouraged because of the resulting increased intake of fiber, micronutrients, and antioxidants. In addition, the intake of naturally occurring fructose is low, ≈15 g/d, and is unlikely to contribute significantly to the untoward metabolic consequences associated with the consumption of large amounts of fructose."

Also, i don't know what you're talking about about fructose being broken down differently than glucose; glucose isn't broken down at all, it's absorbed directly into your bloodstream since it's our body's form of energy. Fructose has to go through the digestive tract and turn into glucose first, which is why glycemic index is perfectly valid. It shows how large of an effect what you are eating has on your blood sugar levels, with fruit being very low

And sorry season for sort of hijacking your thread, i'm just trying to show you that eating fruit IS okay and completely recommended so you can get the body you want as efficiently as possible.

[DanZy]

^quality points you raise. I forgot to adjust my argument. Certain fruits are perfectly acceptable (in moderation of course) but some-watermelon(look at your own research), grapes etc are well above the supposed GI low but still not as bad as straight sugar. The vitamins gained are of course important so eat the RIGHT fruit.

In defense against how they're broken down separately:
"Our study shows for the first time the surprising speed with which humans make body fat from fructose," Dr. Parks said. Fructose, glucose and sucrose, which is a mixture of fructose and glucose, are all forms of sugar but are metabolized differently.
"All three can be made into triglycerides, a form of body fat; however, once you start the process of fat synthesis from fructose, it's hard to slow it down," she said.
In humans, triglycerides are predominantly formed in the liver, which acts like a traffic cop to coordinate the use of dietary sugars. It is the liver's job, when it encounters glucose, to decide whether the body needs to store the glucose as glycogen, burn it for energy or turn the glucose into triglycerides. When there's a lot of glucose to process, it is put aside to process later.
Fructose, on the other hand, enters this metabolic pathway downstream, bypassing the traffic cop and flooding the metabolic pathway"

Thus I'd like to change my argument slightly again, do not eat fruit excessively because it's considered "healthy". For example bananas are relatively low on your GI index BUT over ripe bananas show significant sugar and fructose increases over their unripe/ripe counterparts. I've seen guys binge on fruit and that's what you need to avoid. Also if he intends to drop fat faster it may help to avoid most fructose for awhile

I simply included the princeton study to show the effects it can have on people

[joe]

Jul 19, 2011 10:40:46 GMT -5 DanZy said:

^quality points you raise. I forgot to adjust my argument. Certain fruits are perfectly acceptable (in moderation of course) but some-watermelon(look at your own research), grapes etc are well above the supposed GI low but still not as bad as straight sugar. The vitamins gained are of course important so eat the RIGHT fruit.

In defense against how they're broken down separately:
"Our study shows for the first time the surprising speed with which humans make body fat from fructose," Dr. Parks said. Fructose, glucose and sucrose, which is a mixture of fructose and glucose, are all forms of sugar but are metabolized differently.
"All three can be made into triglycerides, a form of body fat; however, once you start the process of fat synthesis from fructose, it's hard to slow it down," she said.
In humans, triglycerides are predominantly formed in the liver, which acts like a traffic cop to coordinate the use of dietary sugars. It is the liver's job, when it encounters glucose, to decide whether the body needs to store the glucose as glycogen, burn it for energy or turn the glucose into triglycerides. When there's a lot of glucose to process, it is put aside to process later.
Fructose, on the other hand, enters this metabolic pathway downstream, bypassing the traffic cop and flooding the metabolic pathway"

Thus I'd like to change my argument slightly again, do not eat fruit excessively because it's considered "healthy". For example bananas are relatively low on your GI index BUT over ripe bananas show significant sugar and fructose increases over their unripe/ripe counterparts. I've seen guys binge on fruit and that's what you need to avoid. Also if he intends to drop fat faster it may help to avoid most fructose for awhile

I simply included the princeton study to show the effects it can have on people

yea it seems as if we've come to an agreement. i don't know how much you mean as binging on fruit but i try to get 3 servings of fruit (with at least 1 being berries) and 3 servings of vegetables per day; it definitely wasn't that alone, but that helped me to lose a lot of weight

[canadiankid]

I haven't read much except the first post. So I had at first the opposite goal, just get huge. Know what I discovered? It takes along time. Around rolls summer, I decide to get back to my 5% bodyfat I once had (yes I was scrawny as fuck). Guess what? Almost impossible, very time consuming.

That said it is possible to lose weight relatively quickly and add some muscle. First off I would recommend Tim Ferris 4 hour body. The muscle building seems like a load of marketing shit to me but the weight loss section is fantastic. In the short time since I read it I have had success getting sub 10% bodyfat.

First - eat often (every 3 hours awake, breakfast within 1 hour of waking) it prevents overeating. It doesn't actually help your metabolism but it makes dieting easier
Second - ketogenic diets work great (I'm not a doctor but I've had lots of success) no more than 50g of carbs in a day
Third - exercise only burns so many calories. Diet is where you will lose you fat, and your eating more than you think.
Fourth - the cold therapy detailed in 4 hour body seems to be working
Fifth - it takes way longer than you think to transform your body, most people underestimate there bodyfat by 4%

Seriously, gym hard, stay motivated and follow your diet (4 hour body slow carb or "the final pounds")

[jmac]

Jul 21, 2011 23:09:23 GMT -5 canadiankid said:

I haven't read much except the first post. So I had at first the opposite goal, just get huge. Know what I discovered? It takes along time. Around rolls summer, I decide to get back to my 5% bodyfat I once had (yes I was scrawny as fuck). Guess what? Almost impossible, very time consuming.

That said it is possible to lose weight relatively quickly and add some muscle. First off I would recommend Tim Ferris 4 hour body. The muscle building seems like a load of marketing shit to me but the weight loss section is fantastic. In the short time since I read it I have had success getting sub 10% bodyfat.

First - eat often (every 3 hours awake, breakfast within 1 hour of waking) it prevents overeating. It doesn't actually help your metabolism but it makes dieting easier
Second - ketogenic diets work great (I'm not a doctor but I've had lots of success) no more than 50g of carbs in a day
Third - exercise only burns so many calories. Diet is where you will lose you fat, and your eating more than you think.
Fourth - the cold therapy detailed in 4 hour body seems to be working
Fifth - it takes way longer than you think to transform your body, most people underestimate there bodyfat by 4%

Seriously, gym hard, stay motivated and follow your diet (4 hour body slow carb or "the final pounds")

Actually eating 6-10 meals a day (correct portion sizes) does help your metabolism because it will constantly be working and when you workout it only increases the benefits. With that being said, diet is KEY but you can't forget about CARDIO. Yeah it sucks, but once you get used to running, cycling, the stairmaster, whatever you want to do; it get's easier and shouldn't be as bad.

If you want to use the treadmill I would recommend interval training rather than a steady pace because with interval training your changing speeds and your body will have to keep adjusting so it will keep burning more calories even when you are done longer than if you were at a constant rate. But calorie wise I love to use the stairmaster. It doesn't cause you to huff and puff trying to catch your breath (not me at least since I've been doing cardio everyday at least and i also have terrible asthma) so you might want to start with that, it also burns more calories and gives your legs and core a workout. The stationary bikes make it a lot easier to slack since you don't have to put in lots of effort on the low levels.

As for diet, carbs AREN't bad. As long as you eat them right, you want complex carbohydrates and you want to take some before your workout and after (optional but I'd recommend it if you still have the rest of the day to hangout or do other activities). Try not to eat too much carbs before you go to sleep (within 3 hours I'd say) because you most likely won't burn that energy and it will be stored as fat.

Fats are not bad either but you want OMEGA-3 or good fats not saturated or trans fats that you'd get from greasy food and shit.

Protein is key, you want lots of protein because they help repair&build muscle so before and after your workout. Also I like having eggs whites for breakfast (you can buy a carton in which you pour out the egg whites instead of doing the process of breaking the eggs and shifting out the yolk).

Instead of a video or whatever I would recommend a site to help keep you on track and follow their instructions but you can substitute exercises for others that focus on the same areas, ONLY for the right reasons, not because of difficulty. Such as I don't do barbell bench press because my wrist is kinda messed up so I do barbell presses but make sure I push myself as much as possible.

To sum it all up..... Pushing yourself in your workouts+Cardio+Diet&Nutrition= Your fitness goals.

[canadiankid]

I'm saying the way for the fastest results. I lost 2% bodyfat in 2 weeks. That's insane when you think about it, especially since I swam for an hour total and worked out twice.

Carbs are not bad, in fact you need them or else you will keep getting skinnier. I'm talking about a ketogenic diet AIMED at fat loss. I'm not the only one it's worked for. I lost bodyfat while eating things like eggs and bacon for breakfast, BBQ ribs (not to much sauce, it's full of sugar) for dinner, and various combinations of chicken and beef through out. The key? I didn't get hungry even though I was bringing in less calories. Coming from someone who ate 11.5 baby back ribs at Tony Romas in one sitting, that's saying a lot. I'm normally eating every hour or so when I'm eating supposedly "good" carbs and not proteins and fat. I start getting hungry about 15 minutes before my meal times usually so it's not to hard to stop myself from bingeing.

I think once your in good shape like Jmac, his way is great for small improvements and maintenance, but my way gets results as fast as I can. It's actually faster than the intermittent fasting I tried last summer, which previously was the most effective thing I had tried for single digit fat %

[DanZy]

Eating often can be helpful but it all depends on who you are. When I tried it, I found that I actually ended up eating way more and my cravings were really bad. It all depends on what works for you. Protein, as it has been said, is vital and try ensure all carbs are complex (except post workout meal, then they should be simple carbs) www.leangains.com I quite like this plan, going to try it out once holidays start

[jmac]

Jul 23, 2011 8:43:19 GMT -5 DanZy said:

Eating often can be helpful but it all depends on who you are. When I tried it, I found that I actually ended up eating way more and my cravings were really bad. It all depends on what works for you. Protein, as it has been said, is vital and try ensure all carbs are complex (except post workout meal, then they should be simple carbs) www.leangains.com I quite like this plan, going to try it out once holidays start

You need to have self-control of yourself and know that you might have to make sacrifices at times even if you "really want one more, because it tastes soooo good".

[DanZy]

That's not the point. Trust me, I have tons of self control. My problem is that with smaller portions I'm simply not satisfied for the 2-3 hours until the next meal. I prefer to eat 3-4 times a day. There's no scientific proof that eating 6 meals a day is better than eating 4 or 9 etc. When I was eating more often, I found that I was thinking about food all the time and that wasn't helpful. I actually eat far less in a day, eating 3-4 meals than I would eating 6. This shit isn't individualized dude, generally the authors simply write what worked for them and you have to experiment with what works for you best

[Season]

sup everyone

i've been hitting the gym for two weeks now (not every day) and it's becoming slowly a part of my lifestyle. i'm going to pay attention to my diet very soon and i'll buy whey protein once i get the money (i'll never get enough proteins by only eating my meals)

DanZy and everyone discussing about the fruit thing : some huge guy working at my gym is a specialist of nutrition and bodybuilding (he's something like 250 pounds with ridiculously low bodyfat), i talked to him today about nutrition to get my mind set.
rule 1 : don't eat carbohydrates (even fruits, fruit juice, bread, etc) after 4pm because your body needs to burn them before you go to bed (or else it makes fat). fruits are healthy and stuff, but if you don't burn the sugars you're getting useless fat. also he eats about 7 or 8 meals a day with meat, rice, salad and stuff like that.

posting pictures in exactly 2 weeks to notice changes ;D

[DanZy]

^Dude that's an absolute myth, bro-science. It's been disproven many times, carbs don't become more fattening after a certain time. When you sleep your insulin levels drop, thus you're not storing the carbs as glycogen but rather burning fat for energy. The only way to lose body fat is to create a calorie deficit, eating 7-8 meals is totally unnecessary too

[jmac]

Aug 4, 2011 23:40:13 GMT -5 DanZy said:

^Dude that's an absolute myth, bro-science. It's been disproven many times, carbs don't become more fattening after a certain time. When you sleep your insulin levels drop, thus you're not storing the carbs as glycogen but rather burning fat for energy. The only way to lose body fat is to create a calorie deficit, eating 7-8 meals is totally unnecessary too

Actually, you aren't supposed to eat carbs before you sleep or at least not a lot. They are used for energy, and if you DIDN'T KNOW, fat is mostly unused energy and shit. I don't have anything against you, but learn some shit about nutrition and fitness first bro because he is looking to get more cut instead of gaining weight whether it be mass or not.