The only way to reach true happiness: Ignorance?

[jmac]

Of course there are other mindsets that contradict with mine that are totally fine, but this one has no value whatsoever. I can understand a different way of going about getting a girl but this is just a totally negative and stupid thread, that's all I'm saying.

[Nick]

Lmfao Jmac. One, there is no possible way that this is JUST a PUA forum anymore. If the topic wasn't welcome here it would've ended at the OP.

Secondly, how is saying that life is pointless and meaningless... stupid? Because it is pointless. It's not depressing either lol in fact, it's the god damn greatest news there is. Atheism, nihilism, existentialism... none of it is negative or depressing, it's FREEING. Since there is no basic purpose to life, that means I get to CHOOSE it! I completely form my own life - it's meaning, it's purpose, it's direction, and everything else. I am my own God. THAT is the most powerful, positive thing in the world... most certainly not depressing.

@prodigy, I have also read A Brave New World I do agree, it is quite similar and I thought of it while posting. I guess the sheep mindset is quite dangerous... but it's easy and effective. You may not control your life, but you are happy. Either that or you fill up on knowledge and deal with knowing that life is meaningless, love is hormones, and there is no afterlife. It's a lot to handle, but I guess if you can, it frees you. What you do with that freedom determines how fulfilling your life is. Then again... can one life be more fulfilling than another? or is it really just either you're fulfilled or you're not? No in between. How do you reach fulfillment? Satisfaction?

[Adam]

^ wow that was arragant

[RMO]

Contradiction in terms.

a free sheep is a contradiction. You have the illusion of freedom in that scenario.

Reality is perception, happiness is your responsibility not anyone else's.

There is also no way of knowing what is true. God or no god, afterlife or no afterlife. Nothing is truly verifiable, especially what happens after you die, so creating this absolutes and arguing over God and what happens after you die creates an unnecessary flame ware. In the end your happiness is not concerned with god, not unless your sole access to happiness is derived from servitude to God.

And before the shit hits the philosophical fan, heres the only conclusion you can reach from the question this thread postulates:

"The only way to reach happiness: Ignorance?"

Ignorance is not the only way to reach happiness, actually its a false happiness, like soma from a brave new world. No matter your country or creed this is true. There are other ways, some people like me are autotellic and find enjoyment in any activity intrinsically, some people need to accomplish goals to be happy, some need women, and some just enjoying living in the moment, the possibilities are endless.

Quite frankly Jmac is totally correct, except that saying life being meaningless is stupid, it is just a way of giving yourself permission. If this was a thread discussing happiness and state, and how you become happy it would probably be much more helpful.

Finally there is no such thing as 'either/or' life is one big gray zone of opinions, and if you can perceive the raw truth you will be better off, and the raw truth is not ignorance or giving up.

[Nick]

@adam, maybe it was arrogant, but everyone is. Christianity is arrogant... It puts humans above all other creatures. It makes humans BETTER than everything else. That's rather arrogant. I'm not just being arrogant either. I'm just stating my beliefs. I don't mean to shoot any other beliefs down, because I truly am not trying to...

I'm also not trying to argue whether there is a God or not because that leads nowhere. I'm just pointing out the positives and negatives of believing that there isn't one. Everyone seems to believe that Atheism is depressing... I'm just saying it's totally the opposite.

Besides that... what's wrong with false happiness? Happiness is happiness isn't it? Why does it matter why you're happy?

What do you mean there is no either/or? Life may be one big gray zone of opinions... that's why if you eliminate them all you are left with is either/or. Either you're fulfilled or your not. That's not opinion. Opinion is saying that one life is more fulfilling than another. Then again, it's opinion on whether a life is fulfilled or not. So, EVERYONE is fulfilled or NO ONE is fulfilled. That's the raw truth. Yet, even then, it doesn't make a difference, because we all end up being the same. Right back to everything being pointless So why even have this discussion at all? Is it truly pointless to bring this up at all? To have held back and repressed it? Should I have not posted...? And left myself to myself?

[DanZy]

Ok here's things from my perspective, ignoring pretty much everything that's been said.

In South Africa to be ignorant is to be fucking retarded. If you don't know what's going on, you deserve to be shot. We have a government that barely works; our president has been in court over both rape and corruption charges-he was aquitted over both but I'm still convinced he's involved in a massive arms deal but that's another story; poverty, HIV and AIDs are rife-Thousands are dying due to terrible rural healthcare; hundreds of illegal immigrants jump the border from Zimbabwe every day; because of Apartheid it's now harder for me to get into university than a black student; yesterday our country's most wanted man just walked out court-escaping for the 2nd time; the list goes on and on.

BUT I'm still happy, I live a privileged life: high quality schooling, friends and family who love me, financial security, food on the table everyday, unnecessary luxuries that make my life better and easier etc. I'm happy because I feel fortunate and I'm thankful for what I have. I've met and assisted AIDs orphans, I've done community service helping the poor and it feels great. I live a very lucky life.

It's all very cliched and that but it's true. My life is great and that's what I'm thankful for.

[RMO]

yes. not because the philosophical implications aren't intriguing, because they are, but you are unwillingly to enjoy life, just because something is pointless in your perspective doesn't mean that it can't be enjoyable or fulfilling to others. An unwillingness to even try to comphrened that meaning and happiness aren't reliant on each other is making this an ideological conflict rather then a useful discussion.

Honestly this is just you trying to wrap your head around philosophy in general, read something, talk to wise men if you want to better understand this and answer your questions.

[Nick]

The boldness of the statement that I don't understand that meaningless and happiness and are totally separate is quite shocking to be honest. It's totally opposite of what I think, too...

For months I've known that they are separate. I've lived as if they are separate. I relied completely and only on myself for happiness. No alternative meaning or purpose. I haven't believed in meaning or purpose for a long time... Only a week ago was I debating with my Young Life leader and telling him that you can be happy without purpose. That life doesn't need purpose. I firmly believe that purpose and happiness are separate. Only now... I've decided to question it in a way.

And I am reassured... happiness is a choice.

Why, though, even search for the truth? Why does ANY philosophical debate matter? The truth is the truth whether you know it or not. Why waste time searching for answers? Can anyone answer that?

[Adam]

The answer is to just be.

[RMO]

because it is not waste. It is life. The 'Why?' is your responsibility to figure out. Not mine, not a gods, not anyones.



EDIT:

please keep rants in your journal, or make them helpful, because this one could have been if it wasn't a rant, if it was a discussion of how we find happiness, not you feeling existential. If you still feel that your point hasn't been made please make your point a little more clear and try to make it a helpful concept, confront the depression, find where happiness comes from. Otherwise this will just become a flame board and it will have to get locked down. This isn't just nick or me, lets all keep from making this a massive dispute, there is some validity here.

This isn't a judgement on whose right or wrong, but jmac still said it the best:

Aug 10, 2011 18:51:08 GMT -5 @jmac said:

There are already plenty of kids on this site who are confused as fuck about their life and girls and what-not, bitching about your life not being exciting and telling them that there is no true happiness especially for any one of them suffering from depression or also lacking happiness is just showing YOUR IGNORANCE. Man the fuck up and take control of your life, nobody is going to make it exciting for you.

[jmac]

Danzy is the exact example of what I was talking about, obviously everyone knows what happens in Africa (not to mention the rest of the world) especially if you have seen documentaries. It is horrible but you can't let something you have no control over make you unhappy. I met Paul Rusesabagina, the man who the movie "Hotel Rwanda" is about. It's terrible, but he seemed completely happy and he was one of the nicest and most positive guys I have shaken hands with. The fact that you think everything is meaningless is the dumbest thing I have heard. Personally, I can be totally self-centered sometimes and lazy as fuck but whenever I help a charity event or anything it puts a total shine on my day knowing I just helped multiple people whether it be the lonely elderly, people living on the streets, or little children with no parents. You need to find happiness as corny as it sounds. But you don't bitch about it saying it's meaningless in a "rant" on a forum.

[Nick]

I don't really feel like anything is unclear or that my point hasn't been made...

I don't let things that I can't control affect me, either. Happiness doesn't come from what you have or what you don't have...

I still do believe it's all meaningless, though. Absolutely everything. You can believe I'm wrong. I don't really care. The point of this whole thing is: Happiness is a choice. You choose to be happy and you follow your decision and live every moment as happy as you can be. Instead, I chose not to be happy when I made this post. I let too much get to me.

If anything that I've JUST said is wrong, than please say something. If not, I really think that everyone is right and this discussion need not continue.

Thanks for the help (/bitching at me)

[hoops45]

Different people have different reasons to ask. Some people feel accomplishment when they get closer to what they think is the truth. Some people just wanna know. Some people just like to argue. For the most part, people who ask why derive some sort of happiness from it.

[Sloth]

Too long, didn't thoroughly read the responses.

Life is about the experiences, whethere they're of knowledge, 'fun' (which you all seem obsessed with), love, happiness, excitement or even the sad feelings that you push through.

For me it's about discovery, i plan to come out of this world knowing a shit load about myself.
For me it's about legacy, i plan to be remembered long after i'm dead, and the way i lived will also show in the people who i touched (no homo). They're mannerisms, and their attitudes.
For me it's about enjoying it just as much as the rest of you, but don't just become a hedonist and think , fuck this shit ima have fun, because you're missing it on so much in life by just seeking pleasure.

Life is not pointless, it's the greatest gift you've ever been given, whether you believe it was given to you by a divine being, or just pot-luck, there is literally no better gift you could ever imagine, is there?

[perceverance]

either live your life and just live it. or live your life wondering why you are living it.